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Topic: making eyes (Read 886 times)
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alcina
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Western Australia
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making eyes
« on: July 22, 2004, 02:20:37 AM »
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Ok, I have several shots of various butterflyfish and I am finding the eyes very hard to see!
I now have an external strobe - currently gathering dust as the weather here is rubbish - and am hoping there are some pointers out there for me.
Here is an example: [edit:couldn't get it to work, so attached it]
Anyway, comments and tips appreciated...image is cropped and resized; I haven't cleaned up the backscatter that got him...not sure I could have avoided much more of that with only the internal strobe, but maybe?
[attachments are deleted after 90 days due to space considerations]
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Addict & Shopaholic
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Canon 40D, Canon 10-22, Canon 100 & 60 macros, Sigma 17-70, some other lenses; Woody's dioptre; Subal housing; Inon 220s + Inon 240 strobe
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| « Last Edit: July 22, 2004, 02:23:18 AM by alcina » |
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chrism
Shoot 'til your fingers bleed
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Re:making eyes
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2004, 05:55:40 PM »
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| Ok, I have several shots of various butterflyfish and I am finding the eyes very hard to see! |
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In addition to rand's points, you're also working against nature. Nearly all butterflyfish have a "fake eye" at the rear, and the real eye is usually obscured by a band or some color. This is to confuse predators.
Your pic is a juvie so it hasn't developed that defense yet, but you can see how your attention is drawn to the butt...... (no comments richorn  )
Chris
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Canon 300D, Aquatica A300 housing (Grace), Dual YS90-DXs, Single Inon 220S, ULCS arms, Sigma 15mm FE, Canon 18-55 mm, Canon 50 mm
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Fuensanta
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Brussels, Belgium
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Re:making eyes
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2004, 06:13:29 PM »
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| One thing the 5050 does not do too well is take fish portraits |
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Hmm, I agree the shutter lag in the 5050 does not make life easy with fast subjects such as butterflies, but IMHO, that does not mean that this camera is particularly bad for fish portraits, if one learns to time the shooting properly (much discussed) and otherwise tries the also much discussed non-threatiening approach to critters... Anyway, I have a number of butterfly fish portraits (not to speak about clowns - sorry anemonefishes - I can only attribute to the shoot shoot shoot technique and a lot of patience.
In your case, Alcina, your subject is a juvenile emperor angelfish. I just came back from Seychelles (office trip, one lucky day free to fit a couple of dives into the schedule) and shot the same fish, a coincidence. Because it's a bit on the side, the eye is a bit more visible sticking out.
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OLY 5050 Z - PT 15 Inon WAL + Dome Macro UCL 165
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| « Last Edit: July 22, 2004, 06:14:55 PM by Fuensanta » |
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richorn
The Red Baron
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Re:making eyes
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2004, 06:46:49 PM »
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I would like to back up what Rand said, and maybe put some words in his mouth!
The 5050 can take great shots of anything that happens to be in front of the lens, or sitting still. HOWEVER, when it comes to fish portraits, the camera is not "reliable". I dont believe that RAnd meant it cant be done, just that it is not a strongpoint of the camera.
This is not to say we don't all get some decent fish portrait with the 5050, but I got more good fish portraits in my first DAY with a Fuji S2 than I took in 9 months with my 5050.
This was shot with the 5050:
[attachments are deleted after 90 days due to space considerations]
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Rich
Nikon D2Xs, Subal, Inon, ULCS
| « Last Edit: July 22, 2004, 06:48:21 PM by richorn » |
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chrism
Shoot 'til your fingers bleed
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Re:making eyes
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2004, 07:53:12 PM »
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| I guess what I am trying to say is that when shooting with the Oly or similar, coping with the shutter lag has to become part of your technique. To me, that problem is no more challenging than getting the right exposure and composition, which is difficult enough |
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The first part of your sentence is spot on. The second part, I tend to disagree with. In my experience, both exposure and composition are greatly affected by shutter lag. If and when you shoot an slr type camera underwater, you will be amazed at what a big part of the puzzle shutter lag played, and how removing it makes life perfect, makes your teeth whiter, gives you good breath and loses 20# for you..
Chris
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http://www.underwaterplanet.com/
Canon 300D, Aquatica A300 housing (Grace), Dual YS90-DXs, Single Inon 220S, ULCS arms, Sigma 15mm FE, Canon 18-55 mm, Canon 50 mm
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alcina
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Western Australia
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Missing my Diva
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Re:making eyes
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2004, 10:45:57 PM »
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OK...interesting read so far, but not sure I explained my question right.
I want to take better photos of these little guys. We seem to have them all year and while not the most cooperative fish on the reef, with some patience I can usually get a shot or two off. With my current set-up I simply accept the fact that I am going to have to crop the image as if I get too close then the fish gets scared and swims off. Shutter lag and I are on friendly terms...mostly because I know I get to dive more than one week every six months usually!
So, within those parameters, to make the eye better I should wait until he is a bit more on an angle than my first shot here is, yes? Something like this, but actually in focus 
This will give an added dimension to the eye, yes?
But not so much at an angle that he is head on coz he will look really funny then?
How about this one?
How about lighting with an external strobe? Any suggestions here?
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Addict & Shopaholic
www.OceansByAnderson.com
Canon 40D, Canon 10-22, Canon 100 & 60 macros, Sigma 17-70, some other lenses; Woody's dioptre; Subal housing; Inon 220s + Inon 240 strobe
Subal housing for 20D - FOR SALE
| « Last Edit: July 23, 2004, 12:05:34 AM by alcina » |
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chrism
Shoot 'til your fingers bleed
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Re:making eyes
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2004, 12:26:00 AM »
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That first one is right on. If you can get the eyes at an angle so it has "depth" it is higlighted.
Can't tell from your signature what you are using re: strobes, but having two strobes (as it appears you might) will also give the pic more depth.
Chris
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http://www.underwaterplanet.com/
Canon 300D, Aquatica A300 housing (Grace), Dual YS90-DXs, Single Inon 220S, ULCS arms, Sigma 15mm FE, Canon 18-55 mm, Canon 50 mm
| « Last Edit: July 23, 2004, 12:26:26 AM by chrism » |
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Fuensanta
Cleaner Shrimp
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Brussels, Belgium
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Spanish Dancer
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Re:making eyes
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2004, 05:41:09 AM »
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I agree with Chrism, the angle on your first shot is the ideal one to see well all the features and especially the eyes. You see many pictures of these flat on the side, which is meant to highlight the line patterns, but I do like a slightly turned angle much better, makes the shot a lot more interesting. Too bad about the focus, 'cause the portrait would otherwise be so nice.
As for your last question, perhaps it would be useful to have your exif info, see what speed and aperture you used? It's so tricky to get the right balance for a fast subject, you need speed but also as much depth of field as possible. For what it might be worth, I find that a shutter speed of down to 1/80 will do it (unles the fish is really racing, in which case I personally tend to give up ...), on this perhaps others here will have a different view... but trying that speed should allow increasing the f stop to maximize focus zone.
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OLY 5050 Z - PT 15 Inon WAL + Dome Macro UCL 165
Canon EOS 350D, 60mm macro and 10-22 WA Zoom
Hugyfot housing
2 Inon Z240
ULCS Tray and arms
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There's no doubt as to the advantage of shooting with a DSLR as compared with a camera such as the Oly ( even if I have to admit I haven't tried the big rig myself, I surely believe you guys!). I guess what I am trying to say is that when shooting with the Oly or similar, coping with the shutter lag has to become part of your technique. To me, that problem is no more challenging than getting the right exposure and composition, which is difficult enough. 
